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spamiam
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 689
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Posted: 19 April 2006, 18:51 PM Post subject: |
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You all make some excellnt suggestions! I will be putting them to the test sometime soon.
As far as measuring throttle position, it is not so simple.
The carburetors I want to test are SU type. Stop reading here unless you really want to know the details!
SU carburetors work on the "constant depression" principle to make fuel metering more simple. What essentially happens is that the carb choke size is variable so that there is a constant depression (vacuum), and therefore constant air velocity across the venturi. With constant velocity fuel metering is quite constant. Under ideal conditions it is perfectly constant, but real life is not perfect. So, there is a metering needle being used as well.
The constant depression is achieved by having a spring-loaded piston close off the throat of the carbutetor. The piston lifts to a certain level depending on the pressure drop across the piston. More engine vacuum will cause the piston to lift higher. There is a dashpot (dampener) to slow the motion of the piston so that it is not flipping up and down at high frequency, and to provide more vacuum across the venturi for sudden throttle openings which will give the effect of an accelerator pump.
The metering needle is also attached to the moving piston. The needle is tapered so that with more piston lift, there is a narrower needle crossection in the venturi, allowing more fuel flow. This compensates for some of the unresolved non-linearities in the air-fuel metering.
There are 2 issues.
1) Do the pistons hit full lift at maximum engine power. Or do they never hit full open, or hit it too soon. Ideally, the piston will reach full open at full throttle/peak RPM.
2) What is the air-fuel mixture like at each piston position?
The factory had (in the 1960's and 70's come up with a combination of spring strength (holding the piston down) and shape of the metering needle to give good air-fuel ratios at all throttle positions.
But, if you have fitted non-stock intake or exhaust systems, then you may well need some other settings for the springs and needles.
If you have the car on a dyno, then you MIGHT be able to measure the piston lift if you are brave enough to lean over the engine while it is running.
But if you are not brqave enough, or can not afford dyno type, then you have to do a driving dynoamometer with an Oxygen probe up the tail pipe, and a sensor to measure the piston lift as you drive.
So, I have designed a little doodad that fits where the dashpot piston usually goes and this is connected to a linkage. On one of the pivots of the linkage, I have a pot which acts as a voltage divider..
I can calibrate the pot with various spacers under the piston, and then I am able to read piston lift dynamically. Probably one second response time is adequate. I suppose that this would correspond to a time constant of about a quarter or a third of a second to get a reasonable ability to read the piston lift dynamically.
On the desk this device works well. I will soon try it in the car!
-Tony |
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pdubinsky
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 66
Location: South Carolina
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Posted: 19 April 2006, 19:50 PM Post subject: |
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| spamiam wrote: | You all make some excellnt suggestions! I will be putting them to the test sometime soon.
As far as measuring throttle position, it is not so simple.
The carburetors I want to test are SU type. Stop reading here unless you really want to know the details!<...>
-Tony |
I officially withdraw any comments, suggestions, encouragements, helpful advice, etc. now that I know that you are talking SU carburetors. A close friend of mine has been hospitalized and sedated since 1968 after trying to tune 4 side draft SU's. The only way to keep him calm is to hide all the small screw drivers. The only reason I didn't suffer the same fate was that i was sidetracked working on the Lucas elec system of my Triumph Spifire. Being sent to VietNam in 1969 was a relief.
Good luck (and remember the medications avaialable now are much better than those in 1968 - too late for my friend but maybe not for you),
Paul |
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spamiam
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 689
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Posted: 20 April 2006, 14:21 PM Post subject: |
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| pdubinsky wrote: |
I officially withdraw any comments, suggestions, encouragements, helpful advice, etc. now that I know that you are talking SU carburetors. A close friend of mine has been hospitalized and sedated since 1968 after trying to tune 4 side draft SU's. The only way to keep him calm is to hide all the small screw drivers. The only reason I didn't suffer the same fate was that i was sidetracked working on the Lucas elec system of my Triumph Spifire. Being sent to VietNam in 1969 was a relief.
Good luck (and remember the medications avaialable now are much better than those in 1968 - too late for my friend but maybe not for you),
Paul |
Ha Ha Ha.
I pity the fool trying to synch 4 carbs of any sort, particularly SU! I am a glutton for punishment. Oddly, I find SU's particularly EASY to tune and synch.... usually.
My wife has a TR7, and I installed UK spec. SU carbs to improve performance compared to the Emissions-type Stromberg carbs that were originally on the car. I also installed a distributor with vacuum advance, rather than the stock one with vacuum retard at idle, and a mild centrifugal advance only. This really helped. On this car I can twiddle the jet adjusting nut a flat or 2 and then use the lifting pin to test the mixture. In 30 seconds I can get both spot-on.
On my 1966 TR4A, it is not even close. That same technique will not work. Lifting the air pistong slightly does not give a crisp idle speed response indicating the mixture. I have to listen to the "exhaust note" and then run the car and then check the plugs for fouling. I even tried the "color tune" system that uses glass-topped spark plugs to see the color of the flame in the combustion chamber. It looked rich the entire time that I leaned out the mixture until it gives the coect bunsen blue color just as it stalls out from running too lean!
AARGH. This is one reason I want to try the oxygen sensor technique.
I hear that there are some good anti-psychotic medications that have fewer side-effects than they used to. I am thinking of trying a few of them.... And I am glad to hear that you have gotten over your SU problem.
-Tony |
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